Weapons With Character

General Discussion regarding Blade Symphony.

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Weapons With Character

Postby Karoliso » Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:43 am

The short version: Weapon dictating move set and character complementing the weapon is a beneficial approach to consider.


When I was contemplating what sword to model for Blade Symphony, I came to realise that there is a troubling dissonance between the characters and the fighting styles they use.

As it stands right now, the swordplay technique used depends on the character selected. This creates an odd paradigm, where a Judgement wielding a foil will inevitably use stances intended to be used with a heavy two-handed sword.

(For the sake of this exercise, assume we are only talking about Phalanx and Judgement for now)

It seems like the more rational approach is to have the swordplay techniques depend on the sword used, not the character. This would allow Judgement to wield a foil in the correct fashion, or Phalanx to correctly use a two-handed longsword.

As it stands right now, since I want to model a Schiavona (one-handed sword), it would only look right on Phalanx (since he has that animation set exclusively). My initial concerns of what sword type to base it on (jian or foil) are rendered moot, since visual sword replacements have to be matched to characters, rather than sword types.

Furthemore, the proposed method is more flexible and could even allow more weapon types to be implemented down the line.

One might (rightfully) suggest that this would remove some uniqueness from the characters. I propose, that the character should complement the sword (adding "character" to it, if you will), not the other way around. Judgement using a foil would be slower, but be highly proficient at heavy swings, etc.

I am well aware that this leaves Ryoku and Pure in a very odd position and would love to hear ideas on how their move sets would work with the proposed implementation.

I know it might be too late down the line to even contemplate the possibility of such an overhaul, or that it not be in-line with what the developers envision, but I do think it is worth discussing further.

Thank You for Your time.
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Re: Weapons With Character

Postby Dhafo » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:06 am

I don't know, I feel like it would be too much work for something that is basically replacing the word "characters" with "weapons". Plus as a Ryoku main that is interested in playing a bit of Pure, I'm slightly terrified by this idea =P. On a realistic note if you trained in a certain style and only that style, you'd probably end up using the style even if it was the wrong sword for the given style. Even though the judgement would probably be the most efficient if he had to fight off some dudes with just a stick, the other fighters would probably still use their techniques with the stick.
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Re: Weapons With Character

Postby Karoliso » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:21 am

I don't know, I feel like it would be too much work for something that is basically replacing the word "characters" with "weapons"
Did you actually read the entirety?
Plus as a Ryoku main that is interested in playing a bit of Pure, I'm slightly terrified by this idea =P
Do not let your unwillingness to accept the possibility of new concepts (because of your established play habbits) to condemn this suggestion. Try to view it a bit more objectively.
On a realistic note[...]
Ryoku flies.

Reality is a good reference point. However, it is in fact a video game.

Also, it is silly seeing characters hold one-handed swords with two hands when the handle does not have enough length for both hands.
Last edited by Karoliso on Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Weapons With Character

Postby York » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:36 pm

On a realistic note if you trained in a certain style and only that style, you'd probably end up using the style even if it was the wrong sword for the given style.
This is very true! I have fenced for 13 years and when I tried kendo, I noticed my first inclination was to revert back to my fencing training.

The person is the basis of the fighting style not the weapon. It would be interesting if the attack movements were slightly modified by the weapon. Alteration of fighting style does already occur with the more knowledgeable players based on how the different weapons deal damage. (Go for combos on scimitar, go for heavy hitting parries on longsword, go for timing an opponent's attack for the jian counter and punish predictability). The current system works very logically and I wouldn't change it. You don't suddenly learn a new fighting style by just picking up a different weapon. Each of the characters satisfies a different niche of swordsmanship and so far the weapon used adds a good amount of variation while staying true to the niche.
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Re: Weapons With Character

Postby Karoliso » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:14 pm

Here's an example of what you could do with weapon-specific move sets:

Image

If those stances were universal to everyone using the longsword, then you could model an axe and have it feel right. However, in the current system, it would be jarring because Phalanxs' constant thrusting would be jarring at best.
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Re: Weapons With Character

Postby Leopardson » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:47 pm

This post is almost eerie because I was thinking about the exact same thing earlier this morning, and even came across the issue while wanting to model a weapon. I thought it was odd to see a judgement trying to heavy swing with a foil, and even more odd to see a phalanx trying to do graceful stabs with a scimitar.
I came up with the problem when I was thinking about how much I wanted to use a full length zweihander as a weapon in the game, but realized that it wouldn't look right with a phalanx at all or with Ryoku's extremely silly air attack.

The problem I have with your idea is that it would seem strange for every character to have the same (or very similar) animations when using the same swords, especially with anything involving Ryoku's unique attacks.

I came up with another idea that could also give some more variety to player styles.

Instead of having the weapons choose the fighting style, keep the same fighting style, but swap out some animations for others depending on the weapon.
For instance, if a Judgement is using a foil, replace the heavy side swings with a slow heavy thrust. If a Phalanx is using a scimitar, replace the ultra quick thrusts with a few quick long range but short breadth slices. If the Ryoku is using a longsword, slow down the fast string and replace A1 with something more doable.

Another idea I had was to have some weapon classes not be available for a specific character. An axe or zweihander would work fine on the Ryoku and Judgement but look horrid for the Phalanx. The foil looks okay on the Ryoku and Phalanx but looks weird on the judgement. The longsword looks great on Phalanx and Judgement but looks weird when a ryoku starts breakdancing with it.

Both of these dumb?
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Re: Weapons With Character

Postby York » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:21 pm

1) Although the game is named Blade Symphony, I don't think the game dev's intended use of non-sword bladed weapons, but it would be cool to see axes, polearms, and possibly chain weapons and changing the range of attack based on the blade of the weapon (eg. Only dealing damage with the blade at the end of the pole).

2) I do like the idea of the weapons altering the fighting style as described above. However, I recognize the immense amount of work that would entail, not just for animating the new attacks for each weapon on each character, but also to balance each of these so that one blade isn't required for a certain class.

Edit: I've always had a special place in my heart for scyth combat even though it is rediculously impractical.
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Re: Weapons With Character

Postby prince312 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:11 am

What can say is, it is nice to see several types of weapons in a games especially those weapons which will make heavy damage. So excited.
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