template->_php_include(): File ./../includes/nav.inc.php does not exist or is empty

Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evolution

Starting a new clan? Want strategies and tips for playing better?

Moderator: Forum Moderators

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evolution

Postby Luffy » Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:49 pm

nb DID plow through heavies and kaya, so they're the runner-up authorities in this issue.
Killy
User avatar
Luffy
PHAN
PHAN
 
Posts: 1581
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:03 pm

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evolution

Postby joker » Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:23 pm

Keke, No need to be like that Killy :D, btw, my style is pretty retarded! I'm a pretty crazy bastard to continue to jump into players with great aim again and again, but i'm more comfortable with that, so i say, stick with the playstyle you enjoy.

back to the topic at hand, both views are prevalent- Team Hopping is far superior to single hopping on the basis that you have 5 guys moving at the same speeds-give or take- as they reach the objective marker- without sacrificing the speed they built up because they reached a choke point i.e. silo obj 1 main doors- in this case its not just transitory bunnyhopping, but also combat hopping, I don't mind who calls what, but for someone to tell me that bunnyhopping into groups of spammers/ lots of people doesn't work there has to be something wrong there- its worked enough times, though, that might have been my insane luck.

Single hopping however wouldn't work very well for team orientated attacks- everything's about timing, doesn't matter how fast you hop or slow for that matter, as long as you move with the team it will be beneficial, that said, in less linear maps where back-routes are possible (aren't any really) such a fast hopper would be instrumental in breaching defenses, but since dys is mainly a big party of forcing away defensive and or offensive advantages a full team's force is needed.
bigtoecommando: "that joker is pretty good" " yeah he hax"

ss_elmo: teams aren't tt unbalanced actually
Le Glaude: omfg
ss_elmo: it's just joker

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_udqEp_YR4
User avatar
joker
Street Samurai
 
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:01 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Real Name: Chi

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evolution

Postby smiley » Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:00 am

murphy wrote:some observations I have made - not sure what they mean. but this is what hyphen and I were talking about in the supporters forum thread irc chatlog.

basically bunnyhopping for any other game works like this: you are aircontrolling and jumping on the exact frame that you land so that no speed is lost - so basically, you are just aircontrolling through the level.
but I think it works differently in Dystopia, because of a few things:
1) this movie. I know it's CSS physics, but I do think there are quite a few similarities and hyphen has said so himself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYEyIGLRqW0
the reason why this movie is significant is because if you watch closely, he is not "just aircontrolling and jumping when he lands", he is doing extra movements when he lands, which leads me to believe there's something extra in the physics. it could just be like TFC where there's a speedcap (I don't know anything about CSS physics), but just seeing different movements makes me wary of Dys's system.
edit: to contrast directly with the CSS video, watch this QW video. You can see that he changes his movement exactly 0% and it doesn't matter when he lands. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We9HecfYYd4


2) dystopia requires you to spend at least a frame on the ground before you can jump again, so legboosters have to come into it somehow. a person with more landings could potentionally have more speed than someone who is really "bunnyhopping" - hyphen disagrees but isn't it pretty much proven because he chooses to circlejump constantly and goes faster than almost any "traditional" bunnyhopper?

THOUGHTS?




couldnt agree more on 1.)...and if anyone is thinking that pre 1.2 u could bhop in a similar fashion to the guy in this CSS video well you're wrong...there is a fundamentally difference in both dys and css and i could never put my finger on it. Save to say of course that in Dys you'll benefit more from very slight mouse movements. Wish i could make a vid to show exactly what i mean but cbf! Just dont jerk it left and right like a crackwhore! Tfc/qw style bhopping will still increase your speed a bit, but won't lead to massive gain in velocity.What is frustrating, or became apparent with 1.2 is that on some maps in dys, or even in some areas of certain maps you will lose speed on/have difficulty accelerating whereas in CSS this was never really a problem iirc...(outside area in vacc classic example)

Bhopping in css with ahk though IS fun - you get to ambush/anal the opposing team or get into prime vantage points waaaay before they expect you to and if u have a buddy on your team doing the same it's double the lols. Have to say that bhopping is much more useful in css than in dys.

Bhopping in dys only became popular because players developed the habit (and it is a habit) in other games and saw that there was potential in dys - one of the few hl2 mods you could actually build up speed in. Now if you've come across from tfc/ns/qw/whatever and you bhopped in those, naturally you will WHORE it in dys. Granted, it was far more "elite" to use it in ver. 1.0 (or before) and you didnt need the assist of legboosters, but even now, it adds a bit of spice to the game.

You could sit and argue back and forth whether getting to a certain obj faster is good or whether going omgz-so-fast makes you a harder/easier target but meh...imagine been able to hop, get to your destination and then have energy left to remain stealthed or sprint + fist people!? Now, that would be immensely useful (no point in getting somewhere fast if you havnt got the energy to be as effective as possible)

Then again, if you're a decker and you somehow have legboosters...capping an obj as hyphen/luffy already pointed out and then bhopping like a madman to catch up to ur team as they're engaging the nme or camping a spawn is handy...

As for the whole circlejumping vs bhopping thing, let me just say that if you start your bhop sequence with a mean ass "flick" or "curve" or whatever u want to call it, you will beat anyone else who continues to use the forward key for consecutive jumps. And some people, like my bro who doesn't play anymore either, have a phenomenal first jump. It's like a signature move. You'll see it on some vids in youtube how certain players always start off the same way. I don't know what it is, whether it's finding the perfect angle or doing something crazy in the air, but if you hit that sweet spot on your first jump, you will reach top speeds faster. I find that i will +sprint for a very brief moment before strafejumping into my bhop sequence but again, it's difficult to explain it without a proper video. I do have some videos on youtube but only 1 or 2 of them show how i start my sequence and i doubt they'd be of any use
http://www.youtube.com/user/smileytfc#p ... KvWec1ufcc

see how i kinda sprint forwards as i spawn then flick my mouse to the right and strafejump...i replicate the same start nearly each time i begin to hop...

p.s been out of the loop for ages, are there gonna be changes to dys in 1.3 regarding movement/bhop?
Bald Yeti...
smiley
PHAN
PHAN
 
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:26 am

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evolution

Postby Nord » Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:06 am

I wouldn't be playing dys if there was no bunnyhopping to be had. Movement skills and learning curves are the only reason I play FPS still after so many years. I've had to adjust my style of bhop for Dystopia and it's been a nice challenge, I'm still experimenting even after my first full DGL season.

I honestly don't understand how you could possibly say a person who can bhop doesn't have an edge over a person who cannot.

1) There is NO speedcap.
2) You will get into position that much faster.
3) Your number of attacks will increase and with that more damage dealt and less time for enemy defenses to suicide/setup/prepare (especially if they can't bhop).
4) Good bhoppers get all the chicks (unless your name is Kevin Tran).
Image
User avatar
Nord
PHAN
PHAN
 
Posts: 149
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:17 pm
Location: Fullerton, CA

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evolution

Postby murphy » Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:17 am

Nord wrote:4) Good bhoppers get all the chicks (unless your name is Kevin Tran).

you have a crush on me, that's a start right?
Image
User avatar
murphy
PHAN
PHAN
 
Posts: 1404
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:48 am

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evolution

Postby n0rb » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:20 am

stop searching for your name on the forums
Image

MarvintheParanoidAndroid wrote:Also: murphy's desktop. You should all be very, very afraid.


SIZE MATTERS.
User avatar
n0rb
PHAN
PHAN
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:12 pm
Real Name: n0rb

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evoluti

Postby Mice! » Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:01 pm

joker wrote:he noted that consistent use of the shift key for sprint wasted energy


ten what butt on do u use? Maybe space or a side-o-dah-mouse butt on?

lol this topic has novels of posts in it.
User avatar
Mice!
PHAN
PHAN
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:50 pm

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evoluti

Postby joker » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:23 am

Mice! wrote:
joker wrote:he noted that consistent use of the shift key for sprint wasted energy


ten what butt on do u use? Maybe space or a side-o-dah-mouse butt on?

lol this topic has novels of posts in it.


Okay, by consistent use I simply mean holding down the shift key (which is your default sprint button) Ideally Mice!, you want to maximise the effectiveness of your sprint, I mean, think laterally about it, do you really gain speed mid air by expending your sprint energy or the minute you land and jump again? Normal sprinting expends energy as you run across the ground (i.e. a point of friction) in the air, its all about the air control and how well you move your mouse. Therefore, holding down sprint mid-air would be pointless and ineffective. Ideally, you want to time your jumps with your shift key, to give a speed boost everytime you are about to land on the surface.
bigtoecommando: "that joker is pretty good" " yeah he hax"

ss_elmo: teams aren't tt unbalanced actually
Le Glaude: omfg
ss_elmo: it's just joker

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_udqEp_YR4
User avatar
joker
Street Samurai
 
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:01 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Real Name: Chi

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evoluti

Postby Mice! » Wed May 05, 2010 8:00 am

oh i see. I already do that, just a little confused. srry.
User avatar
Mice!
PHAN
PHAN
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:50 pm

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evoluti

Postby ViralHatred » Thu May 27, 2010 4:05 pm

I will admit, I can't bhop. I can try, but I fail.

I can pick up speed with most classes, heavy included, but I'm in no rush to bhop there, or get to an OBJ.

If I were in a competitive league, then maybe. But until then, I'm in no hurry to learn.
Image
User avatar
ViralHatred
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:46 am
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Real Name: Adam Taylor

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evoluti

Postby joker » Fri May 28, 2010 1:57 am

its good to learn viral, changes your style of play dramatically. Lets you speed up or slow down at will -instead of a single pace- great for breaking rhythm.
bigtoecommando: "that joker is pretty good" " yeah he hax"

ss_elmo: teams aren't tt unbalanced actually
Le Glaude: omfg
ss_elmo: it's just joker

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_udqEp_YR4
User avatar
joker
Street Samurai
 
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:01 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Real Name: Chi

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evoluti

Postby yarg » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:34 am

I've seen many opinions about bhop, but am I the only one who thinks it's fun? I hope they won't change it too much in 1.3 because right now it's just so damn fun. Especially hopping down the ramp in vaccine and then speeding through the lower levels of map. Fun. When you finally manage to find the flow and bhop through a map avoiding all the tiny nooks, doorways and such you usually get stuck on. Fun. Backhopping away from some rushing katana'er and shooting him in the head. Fun.

So what are your thoughts on this, is bunnyhopping fun?
Spammebo ergo sum.
yarg
PHAN
PHAN
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:07 am

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evoluti

Postby murphy » Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:23 am

I like flying through a map but bunnyhopping detracts a lot from gameplay. People like to think of Quake as "omg bunnyhopping everywhere" but really it's nothing like that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEEnv595hyY

Even the god of Quake, Thresh, has commented similarly:

So if you had the chance to produce a competitive game, what features would your perfect game include (e.g. Double jumps, QW style bunny hopping, fast weapon switching)?
How about what it wouldn’t include? I really don’t like bunny hopping – in some ways I think it lessens the importance of strategy and prediction b/c with everyone hopping around everywhere, you almost always know where they are.
Image
User avatar
murphy
PHAN
PHAN
 
Posts: 1404
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:48 am

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evoluti

Postby Mice! » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:36 pm

murphy wrote:Even the god of Quake, Thresh, has commented similarly

A god quoting another god? :shock:
User avatar
Mice!
PHAN
PHAN
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:50 pm

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evoluti

Postby joker » Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:41 am

murphy wrote:So if you had the chance to produce a competitive game, what features would your perfect game include (e.g. Double jumps, QW style bunny hopping, fast weapon switching)?
How about what it wouldn’t include? I really don’t like bunny hopping – in some ways I think it lessens the importance of strategy and prediction b/c with everyone hopping around everywhere, you almost always know where they are.
I like flying through a map but bunnyhopping detracts a lot from gameplay. People like to think of Quake as "omg bunnyhopping everywhere" but really it's nothing like that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEEnv595hyY

Even the god of Quake, Thresh, has commented similarly:

So if you had the chance to produce a competitive game, what features would your perfect game include (e.g. Double jumps, QW style bunny hopping, fast weapon switching)?
How about what it wouldn’t include? I really don’t like bunny hopping – in some ways I think it lessens the importance of strategy and prediction b/c with everyone hopping around everywhere, you almost always know where they are.


I would argue people choose whether to bunnyhop or not, he speaks as though all gamers decidedly bunnyhop just because they can without relying on other factors like changing speeds/ changing rhythm- I'm not one who boxes, but i'm sure changing rhythm / stance in boxing affects the outcome of the match. If however, he was refering to a bunnyhopping that maintained a set rhythm, pace, speed and style- then i'm sure I'd agree with him.
bigtoecommando: "that joker is pretty good" " yeah he hax"

ss_elmo: teams aren't tt unbalanced actually
Le Glaude: omfg
ss_elmo: it's just joker

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_udqEp_YR4
User avatar
joker
Street Samurai
 
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:01 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Real Name: Chi

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evoluti

Postby Luffy » Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:23 pm

I'm not sure how you can make bunnyhopping unpredictable.
Killy
User avatar
Luffy
PHAN
PHAN
 
Posts: 1581
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:03 pm

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evoluti

Postby joker » Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:01 am

Luffy wrote:I'm not sure how you can make bunnyhopping unpredictable.


What I mean is you can change the amount you turn, which means when you choose to jump, depending if you swap from very sharp 90 degree turns to 45 and 25 degrees- you can also add in a crouch and then bounce in whichever direction you want- its not like bunnyhopping follows a distinct pattern of movement, the whole idea is you change it to suit the map or situation- which is why in dystopia if you truly bunnyhopped the entire way through a map you would realise that sticking to a standard of jumping would be fail (inclines, ramps, weird floor jutting out everywhere, vaccine 1). In the end it comes down to manipulating your movement and your timing (if you time you jumps).

But yes, its difficult to make it unpredictable- as its quite easy to hit bunnyhoppers, which was why speed + adaptability is so important if you want to use it in combat.
bigtoecommando: "that joker is pretty good" " yeah he hax"

ss_elmo: teams aren't tt unbalanced actually
Le Glaude: omfg
ss_elmo: it's just joker

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_udqEp_YR4
User avatar
joker
Street Samurai
 
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:01 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Real Name: Chi

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evoluti

Postby metzgrr! » Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:49 am

Luffy wrote:I'm not sure how you can make bunnyhopping unpredictable.


Earlier you compared Quakes strafejumping to Dystopias Bunnyhopping, which are fundementally different. In Quake, you cant really turn while strafejumping, the speed you build up is directly forward momentum, and cannot be directed elsewhere.

In Dystopia, momentum can be directed in wathever direction you want. In fact, the fundementals of bhopping has to do with the games insane aircontrol.
Image
User avatar
metzgrr!
PHAN
PHAN
 
Posts: 1348
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:20 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evoluti

Postby Luffy » Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:18 pm

When I saw strafehopping I refer to the mangled version of bhop I do in dys that involves pressing W sometimes. It works, 100% sure, but I'm not sure what to call it.

When I hop forward I guess I sprint forward, then as I jump I air strafe, then repeat. I'm sure a lot of people do this, but there doesn't seem to be an official name for it.
Killy
User avatar
Luffy
PHAN
PHAN
 
Posts: 1581
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:03 pm

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evoluti

Postby Hyphen-ated » Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:33 pm

That's called circlejumping, or "cjing" for short.
User avatar
Hyphen-ated
Team Dystopia
Team Dystopia
 
Posts: 871
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:27 am

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evoluti

Postby Luffy » Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:44 pm

And why would it be called cjing? W-bhop sounds just as descriptive to me.
Killy
User avatar
Luffy
PHAN
PHAN
 
Posts: 1581
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:03 pm

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evoluti

Postby murphy » Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:54 pm

because it's been called that forever
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuUa-TQPkdM

edit: wow, the angles for the "perfect circlejump" seem completely wrong for Dystopia so don't take that video as a perfect guide for Dystopia because you cannot air control as well as you can in Quake (you would have to jump much later)
Image
User avatar
murphy
PHAN
PHAN
 
Posts: 1404
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:48 am

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evoluti

Postby Luffy » Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:22 pm

Oh, I see what I've been doing now. Using strafe's speed advantage to put myself into the air without having to constantly sprint.
Killy
User avatar
Luffy
PHAN
PHAN
 
Posts: 1581
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:03 pm

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evoluti

Postby Nord » Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:02 pm

murphy wrote:Even the god of Quake, Thresh, has commented similarly:

So if you had the chance to produce a competitive game, what features would your perfect game include (e.g. Double jumps, QW style bunny hopping, fast weapon switching)?
How about what it wouldn’t include? I really don’t like bunny hopping – in some ways I think it lessens the importance of strategy and prediction b/c with everyone hopping around everywhere, you almost always know where they are.


I can understand that completely, but the other side of that is using that aspect to your advantage. If 90% of people are bunnyhopping, chances are people are trying to use sound to gain an advantage. This is especially prevalent in games that have a louder sound file for the jumping action. So, mixing it up is taking it a step further, using your wallstrafe to achieve the element of surprise, only bhopping when you know there is no one in earshot, remain unpredictable etc. (remember that 5v5 demo I showed you). Bhopping 24/7 would be autonomic and stupid, but you definitely see people getting in that mindset and having it backfire when/if they are playing against a wiser opponent.
Image
User avatar
Nord
PHAN
PHAN
 
Posts: 149
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:17 pm
Location: Fullerton, CA

Re: Bunnyhopping - the Nostalgia, the Technique, the Evoluti

Postby Nord » Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:32 pm

yarg wrote:I've seen many opinions about bhop, but am I the only one who thinks it's fun? I hope they won't change it too much in 1.3 because right now it's just so damn fun. Especially hopping down the ramp in vaccine and then speeding through the lower levels of map. Fun. When you finally manage to find the flow and bhop through a map avoiding all the tiny nooks, doorways and such you usually get stuck on. Fun. Backhopping away from some rushing katana'er and shooting him in the head. Fun.

So what are your thoughts on this, is bunnyhopping fun?

Good post! It is definitely more fun and creates a new challenge. (I think you meant to say fortress though :D )
Image
User avatar
Nord
PHAN
PHAN
 
Posts: 149
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:17 pm
Location: Fullerton, CA

PreviousNext

Return to Dystopia Competitive Play

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

cron