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dys_crysmack [BETA] *up-to-date*

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dys_crysmack [BETA] *up-to-date*

Postby Deathy » Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:54 pm

UPDATE b3b 30th July 2010
This is still a beta, so you will find dev textures here and there, b3b was on my harddrive over (too) many months and I just want to get a new version to the public. I will continue work on this map, and I'll consider porting it to OB when dys 1.3 gets an official release. I hope you'll have fun playing it, I'm open for your suggestions and feedback so do not hesitate to post in this thread.



Let's start with the Story:
Some Punk Corporation found one of the hard to spot old building which once belonged to Crysmack but now is under control of Datatrust. They (Punks) want Datatrust to loose this part of the Genetic Pipeline, which is hidden down, very deep into the building.

Walkthrough (Current setup, may change with new versions):

Objective 1: Capture Spawn
Activate and Defend the Button Security in the mine part, to capture the spawn in cyberspace. Get into the main node, jump through the parkour and Capture the Spawn in the Objective Node.

Objective 2: Destroy Server Key Hardware
Open the storages of Server Key Hardware with the buttons from the middle of the room and destroy each of them to open the gate.

Objective 3: Inject Bio-Virus
To complete the map, head down to the (DEV-WIP-)serwers, jack-in and infect the Genetic Pipelines with a Bio-Virus. Defend the area for 50 seconds and the win is yours!
You can open a grate for an alternative way in cyberspace.

Screenshots of the last public build:

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Download the latest version:
(version b3b)
http://www40.zippyshare.com/v/12550880/file.html
http://fastdl.punyhumangames.com/dystop ... 3b.bsp.bz2


Credits:
At this point, I want to thank the people who helped me in the process of making the map, in form of providing textures, models, sounds or feedback.
ReFlex - rock texture
svelle - floor textures
ultradr3mer - server model
Fedio - pillar and generator model
freesound.org - various ambient sounds
Dys-Wiki - a very useful resource, great to have it
Mapper Feedback Plays - Everyone who participated in these, thank you
Also thank you for all replys in this thread
Last edited by Deathy on Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:37 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Postby Snowman » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:09 pm

As was mentioned, Meatspace needs something to do on the first objective. If the objective gets held up, 75% of the team will be left with nothing to do. I like your idea with "cyber parkour" but I think you should shy away from requiring players to projectile jump. Maybe have it easier to projectile jump and have an alternate route where you can just jump.

The second objective I really enjoyed. The corp spawn was a little close, but other than that it was a lot of fun. I think the storage containers need an objective next to each one so you can see how much health they have. Other than that it's great.

I didn't really get to see much of the last objective so I don't think I'll comment.

Overall it's pretty cool what you have so far. It's kind of rough but it definitely has a solid form and just needs to be polished.
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Postby Sgt_Hobo » Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:22 pm

First objective needs onscreeninfo for JIP location to help find them.

Depending on how fast or slow you want the second objective to go, you might look into cutting the HP of the storage units in half.

More ideas about the second objective:

1) Relocate button room closer to center of room
2) Make another vent route for attackers to land either over the big room or over the button room (or both)
3) Make a Cyberspace cappable turret in the button room to fend off camping Corps and give deckers on both sides something to do.

Any combination of 1 or more of those would make the second objective that much better.
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Postby Deathy » Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:56 am

Sgt_Hobo wrote:First objective needs onscreeninfo for JIP location to help find them.

Depending on how fast or slow you want the second objective to go, you might look into cutting the HP of the storage units in half.

More ideas about the second objective:

1) Relocate button room closer to center of room
2) Make another vent route for attackers to land either over the big room or over the button room (or both)
3) Make a Cyberspace cappable turret in the button room to fend off camping Corps and give deckers on both sides something to do.

Any combination of 1 or more of those would make the second objective that much better.


Sounds good.. I think I will use your ideas for the 2nd Obj.
And I will also add Subobjectives for the Storages (and an OnScreenInfo for the Buttons).

@Snowman: Yeah, the first Objective will change in many ways anyways.

But what do you mean with Projectile Jump through the parkour? The "parkour" where you have to go on the jump pads isn't really hard but I think I will add a jump pad that leads to the Objective Node.

-Deathy
PS: Thx for the feedback.
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Postby Snowman » Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:22 pm

Deathy wrote:@Snowman: Yeah, the first Objective will change in many ways anyways.

But what do you mean with Projectile Jump through the parkour? The "parkour" where you have to go on the jump pads isn't really hard but I think I will add a jump pad that leads to the Objective Node.


I meant getting to the actual objective thing where it flips you upside down. It seemed like the only way to get onto it was to projectile jump.
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Postby Deathy » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:29 am

I have a little but critical problem with the cyberspace tubes (again).

Image

The selected trigger fires an output to the cyber_gravity (OnStartTouch -> GravityMe).. But it doesn't activate when I fly through for the first time..
As soon as I return back a little to touch the trigger, it all works how it should.
The cyber gravity entity points towards the normal gravity area.
Like this:
Image


EDIT:
Okay, Problem solved.
A huge thanks to Snowman for explaining how to do it right..
I think the Wiki-Article should be updated or explain it much better.
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Postby Deathy » Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:54 pm

Two screenshots from the completely overhauled first objective.

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Postby Dredhorse » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:34 am

IIRC your cs start points have a ledge at the bottom which will stop you when you just go forward, we had similar problems in assemble
OH. btw: I'm normally NOT in these forums anymore, so if you want something from me you need to PM me.

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Postby Deathy » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:29 pm

Dredhorse wrote:IIRC your cs start points have a ledge at the bottom which will stop you when you just go forward, we had similar problems in assemble


Yea, thanks for telling me, fixed this!

OLD/NEW Pictures..

http://double-agent.info/video/index.php?images[]=1216944055/dys_crysmack_b10003.jpg&images[]=1216944055/dys_crysmack_b10004.jpg&images[]=1216944055/dys_crysmack_b10005.jpg&images[]=1216944055/dys_crysmack_b10006.jpg

New beta will be released either sunday or 30th July for the mfp.
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Postby Deathy » Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:57 pm

New version (dys_crysmack_b1) in the first post.
Comments and critiques are welcome.
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Postby kameroti » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:08 pm

Deathy wrote:New version (dys_crysmack_b1) in the first post.
Comments and critiques are welcome.


Hi, I've downloaded and taken a look at this map. This version looks great. Good spaces, nice textures, big improvement over the previous release.

I walked through the play-steps and I have some suggestions...

* The primary objective says it's CS based, but the players actually have to get a Meatspace button first. I'd recommend changing the dys_onscreeninfo over that MS button to a sub-objective. That way the objective listing will show it as something that has to be done as part of the 1st objective.

* When the Punks capture the 1st spawn, they walk into the next spawn through a hallway with active JIPs. Turns out these JIPs are only useful for the Corps on the 1st objetive, but to save Punk players from trying them out, I'd recommend deactivating these JIPs when the 1st objective gets capped.

* The CS Toggle Lasers button worked inconsistently. Sometimes a mouse click would work, other times it wouldn't. Other times the use key worked, other times not. It almost acts as if there's some sort of timed element necessary for the button to work. It could also be that the button is suffering from receiving too much input. Sometimes Source GUI's spam massive 'button pressed' messages to the entity with only a single press. This could be jamming your game logic here. Try filtering the 'button pressed' input through a logic_relay with fast resetting unflagged. That would eat the Source GUI spammed button presses and might resolve this problem.

* On the last objective, it took me a moment to realize it was a JIP. Don't know if that might be deemed a problem by other players or not. When I did cap it and realized it was going to be a countdown, I switched teams to see if I could stop the cap. I didn't spawn in time, BUT the map ended saying I had 'Prevented The Infection' for the final objective. I suspect this is because you had part of my injection-button-pressed-logic time delayed before it triggered the objective cap with a 'set punks'. The game, now seeing me as Corp, creditted it as a Corp win in the objective list even though the punks won the game. It's rare that players will hit this problem in normal game play, but there will be some occations when a player, starting the injection, will be killed and auto-balanced just before the map ends. You might want to take a look at this, but I'm not sure how you can fix it...

Can't wait to see how it plays with other players this weekend!

-- Kameroti
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Postby anton_es » Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:59 am

adding to that: i had trouble in 1st obj cyber as well.
1) the jump pads in cyber have a little height to them so you can't strafe on them, you have to jump on them which throws you off course sometimes and you just bump on the ceiling instead of entering the node.

the node itself is so cramped, as a corp I just hid there and waited for a punk to approach and then spammed him away.
another thing was that I sometimes couldn't apply an ICE wall on the button, sometime the program just floated in the air instead of applying to the button.

meat: make more than 3 very small exits for punks in different places, it's spamtastic.

2)
same here, giving punks only one exit makes it easy for corps to just protect that one side of the room. in our matches on the server corps only lost due to confused new players. this obj looks like a classic GL/tesla lockdown.

3)
another GL lockdown. if you have good teams the one arriving at the chokepoint first with an GL wins this objective. not much you can do there.

actually I like the pipe/cube geometry of the map and that it seems to get narrower and narrower each objective but you will have to find some spam relief areas around the chokepoints' or I see defenders have a big advantage on this map. but all in all I like it.
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Postby alucard » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:52 am

Starting to look good, though there are some things I still don't like:

* every objective is like a big room with the objective and punks/corps approach via a narrow and long corridor - put some medium sized rooms in there!

* not getting back to your own spawn and ammo disp (punks 1st obj, from 2nd to 3rd obj)

and I found a bug:

if you try to encrypt the 1st obj when the security is down, it fails (it stops at the first process, you can't cancel or successfully end it)
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Postby Deathy » Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:07 pm

and I found a bug:

if you try to encrypt the 1st obj when the security is down, it fails (it stops at the first process, you can't cancel or successfully end it)


another thing was that I sometimes couldn't apply an ICE wall on the button, sometime the program just floated in the air instead of applying to the button.


Dystopias fault, not mine. ;)
Everything you do while the button is inactive is buggy and will not affect the button.

* not getting back to your own spawn and ammo disp (punks 1st obj, from 2nd to 3rd obj)


Hm.. you actually can go back, but it's kinda limited to Leg-Booster only.
I may change this.

1) the jump pads in cyber have a little height to them so you can't strafe on them, you have to jump on them which throws you off course sometimes and you just bump on the ceiling instead of entering the node.

the node itself is so cramped, as a corp I just hid there and waited for a punk to approach and then spammed him away.

meat: make more than 3 very small exits for punks in different places, it's spamtastic.


Hm.. I'll think of a solution for the cyber node.
The entrances to obj1 area also.

It's damn annoying to see spam, where I didn't expect one. That's what testing for.. :D


* The primary objective says it's CS based, but the players actually have to get a Meatspace button first. I'd recommend changing the dys_onscreeninfo over that MS button to a sub-objective. That way the objective listing will show it as something that has to be done as part of the 1st objective.


Is there a possibility to not give someone points for capturing a sub-/objective?

* When the Punks capture the 1st spawn, they walk into the next spawn through a hallway with active JIPs. Turns out these JIPs are only useful for the Corps on the 1st objetive, but to save Punk players from trying them out, I'd recommend deactivating these JIPs when the 1st objective gets capped.

I planned this for a later version.

* The CS Toggle Lasers button worked inconsistently. Sometimes a mouse click would work, other times it wouldn't. Other times the use key worked, other times not. It almost acts as if there's some sort of timed element necessary for the button to work. It could also be that the button is suffering from receiving too much input. Sometimes Source GUI's spam massive 'button pressed' messages to the entity with only a single press. This could be jamming your game logic here. Try filtering the 'button pressed' input through a logic_relay with fast resetting unflagged. That would eat the Source GUI spammed button presses and might resolve this problem.

I noticed this also.. but I really didn't know how to fix this.
Thx for the solution.

* On the last objective, it took me a moment to realize it was a JIP. Don't know if that might be deemed a problem by other players or not. When I did cap it and realized it was going to be a countdown, I switched teams to see if I could stop the cap. I didn't spawn in time, BUT the map ended saying I had 'Prevented The Infection' for the final objective. I suspect this is because you had part of my injection-button-pressed-logic time delayed before it triggered the objective cap with a 'set punks'. The game, now seeing me as Corp, creditted it as a Corp win in the objective list even though the punks won the game. It's rare that players will hit this problem in normal game play, but there will be some occations when a player, starting the injection, will be killed and auto-balanced just before the map ends. You might want to take a look at this, but I'm not sure how you can fix it...

Hm.. thats stupid.
Does it happen on Silo?

Can't wait to see how it plays with other players this weekend!

Me too! :D

greetings Deathy
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Postby kameroti » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:39 pm

Deathy wrote:
* The primary objective says it's CS based, but the players actually have to get a Meatspace button first. I'd recommend changing the dys_onscreeninfo over that MS button to a sub-objective. That way the objective listing will show it as something that has to be done as part of the 1st objective.


Is there a possibility to not give someone points for capturing a sub-/objective?

I know of a way, but it's a bit clunky. Credit for an action does not survive a logic_timer. So you could have the player action activate a timer, then the timer finishes the objective and shuts itself down. Thus the player doesn't get credit at all for completing the objective/sub-objective.

If this is a one team only action, you would have the action (aka button press) activate the logic_timer, a 1/10th of a second later the timer completes the action by setting the team capturing it, like 'setpunks' and turns itself off a 1/20th of a second later.

If you need the action to work for both teams, then the button would go to a filter_activator, make pass punks which activates timer 1, timer 1 sets the objective using 'setpunks' and shuts timer 1 off. If the filter_activator fails, then it starts timer 2. timer 2 'setcorps' the objective and shuts down timer 2.

There may be a cleaner way of stripping the credit from an objective completion that the all-knowing dystopia experts can pass on...?

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Postby Snowman » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:18 am

From my experience, opening doors also does not save the activator. OnOpen, OnFullyOpen, OnClose, OnFullyClosed, etc.
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Postby Deathy » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:19 am

Snowman wrote:From my experience, opening doors also does not save the activator. OnOpen, OnFullyOpen, OnClose, OnFullyClosed, etc.


So I could open/close a hidden door and they won't get any points?
Will try out that.. Otherwise I will have to mess with the logic_timer. :P
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Postby Snowman » Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:53 pm

This map is very raw, but it has potential.

The first objective has a good idea behind it, but needs quite a few changes. The security should be a sub objective; right now I have trouble knowing whether or not the security is on or off. I also think the security should just create a barrier around the screen rather than disabling the screen itself. This would eliminate the buggyness of inactive screens, and also add a better visual cue to whether security is on or off.

The cyberspace is cool, but it needs to be opened up a bit. It's very very difficult to capture the objective due to the tiny room you have to deck in.

I like the tube going across the area, its fun to stand on and shoot from as a light.

The corp jips need to be moved out of sight of the big door, because otherwise the punks can kill the deckers. This is a lose lose for the corps: they can let their deckers live, but keep security offline, or they can enable security and kill off their deckers. This may have been intentional, but I don't think it works well for gameplay.


I still like the 2nd objective, although it seems too easy for punks. I liked it when the button room was closer to corp spawn. What's happening now is the punks will run in, press the buttons, and then occupy the corps in combat long enough for the other punks to destroy the storage. This may have been intentional, but I think this makes it too easy for punks.

The corridors getting to the objective itself are flawed. They are very long corridors, and a tesla can easily just throw a ball down there and kill everything in them.

The third objective is cool, especially because you can see the decker - awesome idea! There are some obvious problems with projectiles that I think you should fix by having a bigger area inbetween the cyber and the meatspace. Also, the objective is very close quarters - I think it needs to be opened up a little. Right now punks have a pretty significant advantage.

The 30 second timer seems a little short. Usually it's started after a teamwipe, and so by the time the corps spawn they only have a few seconds to kill all the punks and cancel the infection. I think you should lengthen the timer to more like 45 or 60 seconds.

Overall, the map is looking pretty good. There are some gameplay flaws that need worked on. I'm glad you're roughing it out before you really detail it.
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Re: dys_crysmack [BETA] *update*

Postby Pyroguy » Sun Nov 09, 2008 7:36 pm

Is this map still being developed? I only ask because I significantly restructured Crysmack's wiki article to fit in better with existing companies like Bio Solutions and DNAtech.
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Re: dys_crysmack [BETA] *update*

Postby Deathy » Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:30 am

Yes it is still in development. I'm working from time to time on it.. Like always im restructuring the layout and gameplay/balance. :roll:
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Re: dys_crysmack [BETA] *update*

Postby Deathy » Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:53 pm

Go Go Beta 2a!
This build is primarily released for the mfp. It's still WIP and it has lovely dev textures here and there.

Look at the first post for new screens and download.

Edit: b2a is bugged, uploading b2b in a few minutes.
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Re: dys_crysmack [BETA] *update*

Postby Hotashi » Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:42 pm

+Grenade Launcher = good game.
+Dark motif is great, even in beta.
+Great first objective, but it needs some rocks in the cavern or something.
+Vents are pretty well balanced, just need to be tuned more to prevent GL spam on the server buttons.
+Most of the objectives cannot be soloed, excellent way to encourage team work.
+Sewer area is great, very pretty.

-STOP THE MUSIC
or put in some real music. : ), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_13_-Dz3kM
-Grenade Launcher = good game.
-Needs light in front of doors, or lights on the floor that lead to objective
-Put a blast door on the path from punks spawn to third objective, that'll curb spam.
-Cyberspace is too easily camped.
-Water needs to be more streamlined. :V
-Curvy hallway at second objective is too easily defended by a single man with a GL, or worse, two GLs. That forces vents.
-Don't make it that easy to get a Minigunner in the vents to server buttons.
-If Corps with Rocket Launcher or GL get on that ladder, it's GG. Offense is packed together too close: Maybe a shield wall door?
-Third objective sewers need a turret. Or two. And a blast door.
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Re: dys_crysmack [BETA] *update*

Postby MarvintheParanoidAndroid » Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:33 pm

FEEDBACK AAAAAAH!

1st objective:

This actually turns out to work pretty well, with the corps generally holding meatspace, and the punks with the cyberspace advantage. The scrolling cyberspace textures by the objective are quite annoying - they're very bright and it's hard to see deckers against them.
Once the objective is captured, the door leading from the 1st corp spawn to the objective 1 area should become one-way, so that players back there can go through to the next objective, but nobody can get back to objective 1. I'd suggest putting a turret above the JIP there, which will activate after 10 seconds or so, to prevent corps from staying behind and spawncamping, but giving them a chance to leave and reach the 2nd objective area through either route.

2nd objective:

I don't know what your plan is in terms of hackable objectives here, but it could definitely do with something for deckers to do. A hackable 3rd punk entrance which leads to the area directly above the current corridor could work well - it's pretty much a straight line from punk spawn to there, so the door could be added into the elevator shaft (or maybe to one side of it, to make the path a little longer). This would be a pretty valuable alternative route, as it would be shorter than the others, as well as giving the punks higher ground more easily.
I would suggest making the vents completely inaccessible to corps - with a forcefield or making the entrance impossible to jump to, or whatever works. If corps get in there it's too easy for them to camp the punk spawn exit. Likewise, I think the corps shouldn't be able to go very far down the corridor. A turret or a teamfiltered door (or both) part of the way down it could help here. This does have the disadvantage of having all the corps having to stay back and defend, with not much space to push the punks back, however. As it is though, the corps can get to and camp the punk spawn far too easily.
Feedback on the shield buttons was complained about a lot - a red/green light above them indicating shield status would be lovely.
Once 2nd is captured, the corridor back to the previous spawn should have a blast door or something similar close (one-way again, so that you can still get into the 2nd objective area if you just spawned as a punk, but you can't get back to the old spawn).

3rd objective:

Again, the corps need something to prevent them being able to push all the way back up to the punk spawn. The corridor at the bottom of the pit could do with a turret and/or a teamfiltered door - either just before, or just after the punk JIP depending on whether you want it to be vulnerable or not. One idea I had that might reduce the possibility for massive corp GL/tesla spam, would be to move the alternate stairway entrance all the way back so that it's right next to the punk JIP. That way, punks aren't forced to run directly at the entire corp team in order to reach the various routes to the objective. Perhaps a punk turret at the top of it would stop corps from being able to push all the way back and camp that, too.
The water area is... interesting. If it's going to be kept, there need to be some ladders so that heavies can get out into the objective area. I'm not totally against it, but I didn't use it that much either, you'd have to ask for more opinions on that.
Also, awesome music is awesome, bioxeed move over.
<the_funkmaster> does lez dream of ELCRETIC SHPEE?
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Re: dys_crysmack [BETA] *update*

Postby alucard » Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:52 am

DON'T STOP THE MUSIC!

first obj:

punk entrances are easily spamable, also you can almost snipe the spawn.

3rd obj:

please scrap the water...

and please give us moar room...
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Re: dys_crysmack [BETA] *update*

Postby KindredPhantom » Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:15 am

First thing, a lot of unused empty space this adds to the amount of spam on the map. It is dark in some of the places and needs some lighting. I have provided some feedback in a few screenshots that i have zipped up and can be downloaded here: http://uploaded.to/file/bwdjre
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